Re: [PIUG List] search problem, CASRN

The existence of CAS Registry Numbers with no citations to published
literature has been periodically discussed on the Chem Information List
(CHMINF-L) and in publications by me and CAS. Potentially, there are
several reasons. "Phantom CASRN" often appeared in the early days of the=
 CA
Registry System, typically when the preparation of polymers were patented=
,
often from previously undescribed monomers for which no other data or
information was provided. Personally, I called these compounds "bottle o=
ff
my shelf" or "Nya, Nya, I have some and you don't" (not being anything ev=
en
resembling a patent attorney or agent, I get a little sarcastic at times;=
 
sorry 'bout that). It is a frustrating situation, especially when, even
after several years or even decades, these CASRN are unique listings in t=
he
REG file, still with no citations to any other publication.

-- Bob Buntrock
Orono, ME

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthews, Michael: #CIPO - OPIC" <Matthews.Michael_at_ic.gc.ca>
To: "PIUG Discussion List @ Listbox" <piug_discussion_list_at_v2.listbox.com=
>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [PIUG List] search problem


This indeed will be a recurring problem. The fact that there is a regist=
ry
number for each compound provided by CAS does provide evidence that the
compound was made. There have been other instances where I have found
matches from a substructure search in CAS Registry database, but there ha=
s
been no citation associated with the compounds. Speaking with CAS about
these instances, I was told there is a possibility that a compound was ma=
de
by a company and they received a registry number for the compound; howeve=
r,
they do not want to disclose any information on the focus of their curren=
t
research. By having the compound registered with CAS, this prevents
competitors from obtaining patents on the compounds, without disclosing w=
ho
it is doing the research in this area. I know in the past here at CIPO,
these CAS Registry numbers are still cited against the applicant.

I hope this helps.

Michael


Michael Matthews
Organic Chemistry Searcher/
Chercheur de la Chimie Organique
CIPO/OPIC Patents/Brevets
Organic Chemistry/Chimie Organique
50 Victoria St., Place du Portage,
Phase 1 - 1408A
Gatineau, Québec
Canada
K1A 0C9
Tél./Tel.: (819) 997-8134
Courriel/Email : Matthews.Michael_at_ic.gc.ca


-----Original Message-----
From: Sandy Burcham [mailto:cass123_at_earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:42 AM
To: Matthews, Michael: #CIPO - OPIC; PIUG Discussion List @ Listbox
Subject: RE: [PIUG List] search problem

Michael - thanks very much for your reply - I'll try that - however , the=
 
larger question of retrievability really bothers me - if there are cpds
cited as prior art by examiners (or anyone else) there should be a way to=
 
retreive them even if they are no longer available - and depending on the=
 
reason for unavailability - should they have been in a catalog in the fir=
st
place?

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Matthews, Michael: #CIPO - OPIC" <Matthews.Michael_at_ic.gc.ca>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2008 10:36 AM
>To: Sandy Burcham <cass123_at_earthlink.net>, "PIUG Discussion List @ Listb=
ox"
><piug_discussion_list_at_v2.listbox.com>
>Subject: RE: [PIUG List] search problem
>
>Hi Sandy,
>
>This concerns me, as I work at CIPO as an organic chemistry searcher on
>prior art. What may help is the supplier name and entry date provided i=
n
>the CAS Registry entry. The Supplier is "Ambinter" and this particular
>registry number you gave was entered on August 16, 2002. It may help th=
en,
>to find a catalogue from Ambinter from the year 2002; here you will
>probably find your compound. As for the number format, I have not been
>able to find this number in the CAS Registry database, nor on Ambinter's=
 
>web site. Even searching the structure at Ambinter there are not hits,
>this is probably because they no longer supply the compound(s). I would=
 
>contact them and request a copy of their 2002 catalogue (which I'm sure
>they must have somewhere).
>
>Good luck and keep me posted!
>
>Michael
>
>
>Michael Matthews
>Organic Chemistry Searcher/
>Chercheur de la Chimie Organique
>CIPO/OPIC Patents/Brevets
>Organic Chemistry/Chimie Organique
>50 Victoria St., Place du Portage,
>Phase 1 - 1408A
>Gatineau, Québec
>Canada
>K1A 0C9
>Tél./Tel.: (819) 997-8134
>Courriel/Email : Matthews.Michael_at_ic.gc.ca
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sandy Burcham [mailto:cass123_at_earthlink.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:27 AM
>To: PIUG Discussion List @ Listbox
>Subject: [PIUG List] search problem
>
>Help! In an International search report from 2004, a list of relevant
>compounds were reported retrieved from Chemcats having a weird and
>untraceable order number format.
>
>the format is: 094_12494-10292-103 (with different numbers for each
>entry. ) One cpd was given the following registry number 444054-63-1
>corresponding to 094_12313-11057-104. this cpd is in registry but no lon=
ger
>in Chemcats although the registry entry identifies it as being in chemca=
ts.
>I sent this information to CA and was informed that as new catalogs are
>entered and some cpds removed retrievability disappears. However, no on=
e
>at CA could identify the order number format. I have over 30 of these c=
pds
>to idnetify. Can any of you help me withthe format? And also, once the=
se
>cpds are identified as prior art, shouldn't they be retrievable - perhap=
s
>in another database of Removed cpds?
>
>Help! Please! Sandy Burcham
>610-630-6616
>cass123_at_earthlink.net


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Received on Wed Jan 16 2008 - 00:49:54